Dervish » Blog Archive » The immorality and inefficacy of torture

The immorality and inefficacy of torture

July 4th, 2008

I’m no fan of Christopher Hitchens, but I’ll give the man - he put his money where his mouth is. He underwent a torture technique called “waterboarding”
(controlled and reversible drowning) in an effort to add information to
the ‘debate’ over the use of torture by the US military.

As a Muslim, I cannot and will not countenance the use of torture on
any individual, no matter their crimes (real or imagined). It is a sign
of the degredation of morality in the American political system that
there is anyone who would defend the use of torture. Life is sacred,
and we will all have to stand before our Creator to defend our actions
in the end.

9 Comments to “The immorality and inefficacy of torture”

Irving | July 6th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

I noticed he did not believe waterboarding was torture until he went through it. I wonder how he feels about capital punishment?

Ya Haqq!
Tess | July 6th, 2008 at 8:52 pm

Thanks for the link to the Hitchens article. I like the way in which he articulates the opposing views, but comes down firmly on the anti-torture side. Although I’m a bit concerned that his main argument seems to be the danger to Americans rather than its innate inhumanity.
Irving: like it!
ummyasmin | July 7th, 2008 at 10:54 am

Irving! *shock, gasp, grin* LOL.

I have to say though, that when torture is portrayed in dramas on the telly, it usually involves lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth, in dark, dingy basements. This *looked* quite subtle, so it is very, very, very scary how effective how torturers have honed their methods.

Tess: there are those of us that oppose it on moral and ethical grounds, and then there are the neocons.
steve at the pub | July 7th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

If we all have to stand before the creator & defend our actions, then heaven is going to be very short of souls who were in arab (or even muslim) governments. Likewise for the defenders/apologists of such governments.

Compared to what those fellers get up to, torture by yank neocons is little more than a frat party hazing session.
ummyasmin | July 7th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Hi Steve at the Pub,
It seems to me that torturers probably all ’share/copy’ methods among each other, no matter whether they are Arab, American, Israeli, Chinese or whoever else.
steve at the pub | July 7th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

Ummyasmin, how did you arrive at this conclusion?

There seems to be little to no evidence that the USA is copying methods used in other countries.

When compared to the horrific treatment dished out in Zimbabwe, China, Russia, Morocco (etc) the roughest of stuff done by the USA can be termed no more than extremely unpleasant.

Flogging, amputation & suchforth are not practised at all by the USA, but there are places where these things are done in the name of a government, a government which has defenders/apologists galore.

It certainly is NOT the same the world over. I’ll warrant that every single one of the inmates at Guatanamo Bay (for example) would elect to remain locked up right where they are in preference to being handed over to the security services of Egypt of Morocco (for example)

In 1945 Germans were prepared to walk on coals to surrender to American soldiers, as everybody knew what would be in store were they to surrender to Russians.
Likewise today, being interrogated by US security services, no matter how unpleasant for the interrogatee, would be miles ahead of the more “robust” interview methods in use in almost every non-democratic nation on earth, and many democratic ones. (This list of nasties would include just about every nation which claims Islam as a state religion)

If you are correct about all having to answer to the creator, then heaven will have a dearth of persons who held political power in muslim nations. Likewise those who defended those governments will never ascend to eternal salvation.

For them it will be a deserved descent into eternal torment.
ummyasmin | July 7th, 2008 at 11:33 pm

Hi Steve,

Your question implies there might be methods of torture that are more ‘acceptable’ than others. Whilst we could say that some methods are less spectacularly gruesome than other methods, I believe all forms of torture are morally evil. It doesn’t matter to me whether the torturer is wearing a US military uniform or a ski-mask with Arabic writing emblazoned upon it.

Furthermore, the whole reason behind rendition was so that the US could torture prisoners in places where they wouldn’t be held accountable for that torture.

According to a political appointee within the Bush administration and U.S. intelligence sources, the interrogators at Abu Ghraib included a number of Arabic-speaking Israelis who also helped U.S. interrogators develop the “R2I” (Resistance to Interrogation) techniques. Many of the torture methods were developed by the Israelis over many years of interrogating Arab prisoners on the occupied West Bank and in Israel itself. (Ref)

The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of “coercive management techniques” for possible use on prisoners, including “sleep deprivation,” “prolonged constraint,” and “exposure.”

What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners. (Ref)

“If you are correct about all having to answer to the creator, then heaven will have a dearth of persons who held political power in muslim nations.”

Quite possibly, but that is why our saints and sages warned the pious to flee if they were offered political power.
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